Black Hills 50 grain VMAX remanufactured

This 50 grain V-max is loaded by black hills using once fired brass.

Remember we are shooting a 24 inch krieger 1:7.7 twist and the Ballistic Advantage hanson profile and Larue predatar are both 1:8

Atmo for the day

Start time 1120/ winds 4-10 no value/ temp 74.4/ ele 1470/baro 29.76

Quick Look

Krieger Barrel

Extreme Spread group sizes.




The groups vary by a half inch but yet again we can compare each group with the same aiming point and see that the entire 15 round aggregate comes together quite nicely.  I will have to spend the money on the software that lets me quickly do that.

Velocity came out like this

Group one

3442              Average 3447.2

3449             High 3464.05

3439             Low 3438.91

3442             Extreme Spread 25.14

3464            Standard Deviation 10.1

Group two

3476            Average 3467.42

3440            High 3486.12

3486           Low 3440.38

3472            Extreme Spread 45.74

3462            Standard Deviation 17.33

Group three

3433           Average 3453.16

3457          High 3483.21

3440         Low 3432.52

3483         Extreme Spread 50.69

3453          Standard Deviation 19.43

Average of the Averages

Average velocity came to 3455.9 FPS with a standard deviation average of 15.62 FPS


The speed difference between the Fiocchi 50 grain vmax and the Black Hills was substantial.

See Nicks getting better at graphs and stuff





The groups are misleading with the 2.348 top left group.  There is a definite chance for a ‘pulled shot’ or statistical outlier involved but looking at the spread of the two subsequent groups we see a nice round group approximately 1 inch in size.  The top left group can e seen to have 3 shots within that same 1 inch circle with a hard left hit less than 1/4 inch to the left of the group and a hard right hit almost 3/4 of an inch off from the group.  Perhaps Nick should concentrate on his trigger squeeze.


Group one

3110                  Average 3096.89

3070                High 3112.59

3094               Low 3069.63

3099              Extreme Spread 42.96

3113                Standard Deviation 17.08

Group two

3103               Average 3116.02

3113               High 3128.93

3125              Low 3103.24

3110             Extreme Spread 25.7

3129            Standard Deviation 10.79

Group three

3127             Average 3119.49

3125             High 3135.95

3087            Low 3087.23

3122            Extreme Spread 48.72

3136            Standard Deviation 18.76

Average of the averages

Average Velocity was 3110.8 FPS with a standard deviation of 15.54 FPS

Ballistic Advantage Hanson




Yet again Nick has an outlier in the data.


Group one

One shot is missing from chronograph data

3101                 Average 3098.18

3110                 High 3109.69

3104                Low 3078.42

3078               Extreme Spread 31.27

Standard Deviation 13.68

Group two

3113             Average 3089.04

3080           High 3112.88

3085           Low 3079.65

3080           Extreme Spread 33.23

3087           Standard Deviation 13.73

Group three

3111            Average 3109.92

3115            High 3112.57

3087           Low 3087.28

3115            Extreme Spread 35.3

3123           Standard Deviation 13.39

Average of Averages

Average velocity came out to 3099 FPS with a standard deviation of 13.6 FPS

And here is how Black Hills 50 grain VMAX compared to the Fiocchi 50 grain VMAX

Again I found that this round would have been suitable in any of our barrels as a varmint or predator round.  The big step up from the Fiocchi to the Black hills is the velocity.  I may come back and plug in this velocity data into my ballistic calculator to show the changes in round impact due to wind the almost 200 FPS change would mean between one round over another or the change between the Fiocchi in one of the 16 inch guns in comparison to the Black Hills in the Krieger.  The take away is that new shooters must realize that just because two loads use the same projectile they are not necessarily equal.

Fiocchi 50 grain VMAX

Sorry for the delay guys.  Grandpa has been in the hospital and this didn’t take priority.  In the future I think Im going to try to limit to one load a day.  Its easy to try to cram a ton into a session.  I shot about 4 hours last week and it is pretty draining trying to get the best groups you can.  I also got a gnarly sun burn on the back of my legs despite the multiple applications of sun screen and when shooting alone walking 100m a whole bunch of times adds up.

Fiocchi 50 grain VMAX is the first round Im gonna ring out just because someone on a gun group on facebook was just asking about them.  I believe this is the cheapest ammo I shot in the 50-53 catagory recently and it really surprised me.

Remember we are shooting a 24 inch krieger 1:7.7 twist and the Ballistic Advantage hanson profile and Larue predatar are both 1:8

Atmo for the day

Start time 1120/ winds 4-10 no value/ temp 74.4/ ele 1470/baro 29.76

Quick Look

The krieger seemed consistently ok with the 50 grain vmax

Group sizes(5 shot)




Click and you can blow up the group.  Note that the aiming point was the same on each of these targets.  That makes it so you can eye ball overlay a 15 shot group and the fliers don’t look as much like fliers.  Any of those three groups could have been dissected into perfection.  The reality hits in when you put all your data out.

Velocity info (in FPS)


group one

3265                Average 3219.23

3218                High 3264.91

3202                Low 3188.58

3223                Ex Spread 76.34

3189               Standard Dev 28.96

group two

3273               Average 3272.51

3263               High 3294.84

3259               Low 3259

3273               Extreme Spread 35.84

3295               Standard Dev 13.91


Group three

3264               Average 3272.51

3276               High 3289.22

3258               Low 3258.3

3275               Ext Spread 30.92

3289              Standard Dev 11.97

Average of the Average

3254.75 FPS running speed was on the low side for the telephone pole barrel but the standard deviations averaging at 18.28 kept things pretty tight.





Again we can quickly eyeball a composite and see that the top right group clearly has a flier or outlier in the group.  The being said the composite still shows a drag out in the over all group both vertically and horizontally.  It would be very easy for someone with an ego to place a dime over the two low shots on the bottom right group calling it a pristine 3 shot group.

Lets pull out the velocity

Group one

2924                      Average 2909.98

2880                      High 2923.99

2903                      Low 2879.52

2920                      Extreme Spread 44.47

2924                      Standard Dev 19.07

Group two

2893                     Average 2912.1

2882                    High 2949.14

2949                    Low 2881.55

2929                    Extreme Spread 67.59

2907                    Standard Dev 27.23

Group three

Again Im missing a shot.  This happens through lab radar failure or me being stupid and forgetting to hit arm on the radar before I shoot a group.  You are getting a lot of data for free so shut up.

2936                  Average 2948.91

2982                 High 2982.32

2918                  Low 2918.2

2959                 Extreme Spread 64.13

Standard Dev 27.88

Average of the Averages

Average velocity was 2923.66 out of this 16 inch barrel.  The standard deviation was a less exciting 24.73.


Ballistic Advantage Hanson




This load in the rifle seemed a pretty consistent 2 moa zone shooter.  Stack them up and you fill a pretty uniform 4 block area each of which is 1 inch on these targets.


Group one

2955                    Average 2916.92

2933                    High 2954.91

2904                   Low 2874.09

2874                   Extreme Spread 80.81

2919                    Standard Dev 30.51

Group two

2930                   Average 2921.62

2898                  High 2932.38

2932                  Low 2897.74

2930                  Extreme Spread 34.64

2919                   Standard Dev 14.35


Group three

2872                  Average 2910.39

2935                  High 2955.7

2877                  Low 2871.96

2912                  Extreme Spread 83.74

2956                 Standard Dev 36.08

Average of Averages

This 16 inch light weight barrel averaged a velocity of 2916.31 with a standard deviation of 26.98.


In the end we found that each of these barrels shot groups that would be considered more than adequate for varmint usage.  The 50 grain Vmax bullet is very well suited for it and even at a 2 moa group it would be more than capable for most small game including coyotes.  At the price you could easily stack it deep and get loads of dope for field use in the future.

In this same shooting session I also fired

Black Hills 52 grain

Black Hills 50 grain vmax

American Eagle varmint and predator 50 grain JHP

Those will be along sooner or later.  Sorry for the lack of fancy graphs and stuff they will be along sooner or later Im just really bad at that stuff.

I took this picture as I left the corn field I was shooting in.  I knew right away it was gonna hurt.

Only accurate rifles are interesting

Townie had it about right.  Then again he also claimed “the 30-06 is never a mistake”…so we will give him a solid B+ for effort.  Our light weight shootout was a bit of a stressful cap to the year last fall.  We did a lot of shooting in a day and then got to process some data.  I was out shooting last weekend and talking to Hoover throughout the process about how rusty I was.  I had been shooting throughout the winter but outdoor long range in the cold and windy Iowa grass land is a bitch and a half.

I told him I was going out to shoot my krieger for a bit and he asked if I was gonna share the info on SOTG.  I wanted to but the reality was I was shooting an OCW using 52 grain match burner bergers in a 24 inch barrel going 3500 fps.  It really doesn’t apply to what most folk are getting into.  Dumb pet projects aside I was able to lay behind a gun comfortably and work on putting rounds down range in an precise fashion.  Dry firing on carpet is great and all but you really need to get in and do the dirty to make it all relevant.

Hoover reminded me that we should probably think about getting some holes in paper along with data to share with our hombres who seem to care.  I have been amazed every time I check the site to see people are still coming to take a look.  I especially like seeing it when it is at  So this is the part where I remind folks that Nick is an electrician and a hobbyist.  He isn’t a real scientist or a pro gun slinger.

Without further ado I give you.  Light weight shoot out addendum.

I don’t have a criterion hybrid here and it just doesn’t matter.  I will substitute a krieger 24 inch 7.7 twist SS barrel.  I know what you are thinking.  Yea well Nick thats not exactly light weight stud.  My response is cool beans bro.  I want to see how some random match loads shoot in my personal gun as compared to my handloads.  So in me shooting a handful of loads I get some data for myself and we can present a few more groups with the larue and BA hanson.  I will be using my ADM ambi lower with a bcm grip, geissele national match DMR trigger and xlr ar stock.  I will  also be pulling my vortex razor II 4.5-27 which is the same type of glass we used last go around only its mine and not Hoovers.  I spent 3 minutes looking for my single round follower with no dice so if I find it I will use it otherwise tough luck.

Close enough right….right

Tomorrow I hope to shoot the following.

Two are repeats.  The Australian Outback 69 grain will make a second appearance as well as Black Hills reman 52 grain.  Im shooting them again to make a comparison to the last iteration but also because I like shooting guns and stuff.  The mags are hornady 75 grain steel match.  They were mailed out last test like this and I promised I would shoot them over chrono even if I didn’t get group data what with our rushed timeframe.  I didn’t get to it then.  I will plug three 10 round groups through the larue and the BA with them sorry dudes not putting that in my krieger.  The Norma match is a 77 grain SMK that will be shot through each gun in 5 shot groups.  As will the Black Hills 50 grain V-maxs.  Im going to make a quick run to a local shop in the A.M. hoping to score some Federal 50 grain tipped varmint.  In our initial test we had some pretty intense claims of guys shooting federal 50 grain.  I knew right away I wanted to get some in and see.  I saw a box of the 50 grain V-maxs and wanted to shoot them as well as the federal in hopes I get a cheap varmint round out of one of them.

-Edited to add-

Found Fiocchi 50 grain V-max here at the house and will test them as well.  I may adjust tomorrow based on what I find in stock leaving out the norma match for now and staying with a bunch of small rounds.  Time will tell.


All in all not much to it.  I will log atmo and I will have a lab radar out and set.  Im not sure how polished the data will be but I will try to at least get them processed in on target.

Future predictions.

The fine folks at farros lead farm have an order in for me of 77 grain TMK’s in a load that they sell.  I shot some through Hoovers service rifle and it blew my skirt up so I want to get some for future testing.  I still have several good match 22 rounds I will like to compare between my 10/22 with tac sol threaded barrel and Hoovers super pimp sauce cz 455 elite uber tactical.  Most likely that will wait until my .22 can is out of jail because quiet guns are pretty interesting too.  I am also slowly getting stuff together to do a remake on a very classic and respected test done by the box of truth.  Old Painless was one of my favorite posters on before my untimely yet inevitable crash and burn.  The box of truth is regularly referenced in shotgun propaganda threads.  My hope is to go back and test using the same criteria TBOT used only using viable home defense rounds.  It seems silly to compare 00 buck, birdshot and xm193 in my mind because if you are using xm193 or 115 grain ball rounds through a 9mm for home defense you are dumb.  I personally use gold dot 55 grain and 115 grain for my rifle and pistol for if/when the shit gets sideways.  I hope to test flight control #1 through a 12 gauge as well as a few common AR15 defense loads in a rifle and sbr configuration as well as 9mm rounds through a simple glock.  Of course we will also track some velocities and stuff too.  I will also be dropping random ammo snapshots in the style of Molon turning away from the match loads we have been concentrating on.  On the table right now are the cheap seats.  I have wolf gold, xm193 tula and probably silver bear that will go head to head sometime this month yet.  I had septoplasty and turbinoplasty a few weeks ago and I don’t want to shoot too much in a single session.  I hope to get stuff logged as I do it so nothing gets too backed up.  Wanna see something else?  Ask or shout out.


Delay in science

Im posting up quick to say hey we are alive….  Winter has been long and hard in Iowa and most of the shooting I have been doing has been fast and frozen.  I am hoping to get some good chronograph data and comparison groups using a handful of match grade .22 offerings through a tacsol 16 inch threaded barrel.  Its something I will be doing for myself to figure out if I like the barrel and which match ammo I should stock up on for that particular gun.  It is my sons but I paid for it so I should be allowed to play with it too.


Im working concept of operation up for a test comparing a .22 9mm .223 and 12 gauge for home defense purposes.  There are lots of preconceived notions about the rounds and how they react inside a house.  It turns out when you wire condominiums and are nice to the sheet rock guys they are willing to let you steal large amounts of fire board.  Mostly looking at what kind of criteria and data you would like to see collected.  Send me a message or comment here if you have ideas.  Sadly no access to ballistic gel currently.


The east coast science lab decided to have a baby this spring so he will be unreachable for a week or so until the child is old enough to aid in our science.

Keep shooting


Master Post for Semi Lightweight Barrel Shootout

This post is a master archive for everything surrounding the Semi Lightweight Barrel Shootout.  The test was conducted over veterans day weekend of 2016.  The data was processed over several weeks following and as a result it became some what hard for the casual observer to jump into.  When reading this information remember that during much of the ammo presentation we did not know which barrel or ammo had shot the best and we simply presented it as we found it.


The original post can be found @ SLW Barrel Shoot Out.  We fluctuated back and forth with the procedure for the test and it went from something we could do for a good time to concentrating on presenting everything clearly.


Testing went relatively smooth but we found early that we would be presenting fewer groups than we would have liked and the process was taking longer than we had hoped.  All barrels shot one ten shot group of each of the ten ammo selections.  Then they fired two five shot groups of each of the ten ammo selections.  Resulting in 60 rounds fired of each ammo and 600 match grade rounds being fired overall.

We went after the ammunition break downs first and each of the ten can be found in the links below.
Australian Outback 69gr

PPU 69gr

Black Hills 69gr

Federal Gold Medal Match 69gr

PPU 75gr

PMC 77gr

ASYM 77gr

Federal Gold Medal Match 77gr

CBC 77gr

IMI 77gr

The data from each of the ammunition types was compiled in a Data Summery found @ SLW BARREL SHOOTOUT AMMO DATA SUMMARY

Finally we compared the barrels using both Extreme Spread and Mean Radius

We also have an ammunition comparison adding price in as a factor found in the Price for Performance rundown.

If you enjoyed reading about this particular test share with a friend.  We learned a lot on how we wanted to share data in the future and how much we could attack in a given time frame.

Barrel overview using mean radius/average to center on targets

Before we talk about any of our own data I feel it is important to talk about what mean radius is and what it should mean in terms of accuracy reporting.  Any time someone talks about accuracy or precision as a general subject they quantify that using the term MOA.  MOA stands for minute of angle and is an angular measurement.  Generally speaking when they use this term they are talking about the measurement of extreme spread which they are showing the furthest outside two shots.  With an extreme spread you can have multiple ten shot groups that may look very very different but can be reported as the same size.


The above group illustrates how two groups which look very different could be misinterpreted.  The group on the right at .646 MOA extreme spread would be considered larger than the .643 MOA extreme spread on the left.  The are very close and could be a calculation error.  The reality is that the group on the left is much tighter with one outlier shot.  This isn’t necessarily a ‘flier’ or shot that should be removed from the group information but it surely shouldn’t define the entire group.  This is where mean radius comes into play.  By measuring each rounds displacement from the center of the group we can compare groups based off of the average deviation form the center of the group thus incorporating every round of the group rather than the two furthest groups.  The average to the center of the target on the left is .176 while the target on the right is almost twice as dispersed at .309.

Extreme spread has held its hold on shoddy reporting thanks to its ease of use.  Technology has taken over most aspects of our life but it seems to just be too easy for a shooter to approximate the furthest two shots (or often times eliminate the furthest and compare only the interior most groups)

Luckily there is great software out that we can easily process group sizes.  One such product is ontarget when you process groups through on target you can quickly compare extreme spread as with average to center instantly.  If you see other shooters presenting groups you can also quickly find a reference point and find the mean radius for comparison sake.

So how did our barrels and ammo compare when measuring every round of the group rather than just the extreme spreads?  (note some of the graphs were made by Ryan and are good.  The graphs with no Black Hills info are made by yours truly.  The computer genius)

Lets start with the Ammunition mean radius averages


Right away we must remind that the ten round group for the Black Hills 69 grain was only 8 rounds for one barrel.  So 1/3 of the 10 round groups are slightly skewed and the combined data will be slightly different.  For that reason when we get to the barrel information there will be two graphics one with BH and one without.

Using mean radius we still see a rather tight pack among the full data of the ammunition results.  We still instantly pick up the larger PPU groups and find that it wasn’t a single or even a few misplaced rounds that sent the extreme spread to be the largest but the averages of the rounds to be routinely larger than the counterparts.


ammo-group-average-10-round-atcWhen showing just the ten round groups we see similar groups that do not line up as well as the others mostly the PPU offerings.  I feel compelled to remind again that the 10 shot group data for the Black Hills 69 had one excellent group of 8 rounds.

ammo-group-average-5-round-atcIn the five round groups we see the Black Hills is higher and is represented with a full sample size.

The barrel results are easier to read and compare.

5-round-group-average-atcI am leading off with the 5 shot groups as there are twice as many samples for them.  We also do not have any contamination in them.  The scale on this bar graph is at a very close examination.  There is only a difference of .04 moa over all the 5 round groups.  The three barrels all shot very well.

all-groups-average-atcWhen comparing all groups the criterion is about .05 moa tighter than both the BA and Larue offerings but this includes data for Black Hills 10 shot groups.

imageThe combined groups graph without Black Hills quickly shows off that I am a cave man that isn’t capable of simple computer tasks.  I couldn’t figure out how to put the numbers into the top and Ryan had actual things to do on a friday night. The figures are

Ballistic Advantage .584

Criterion .539

Larue .586

This doesn’t represent a huge change but it made me uncomfortable presenting data that was skewed.  I try to remind anyone looking at this that no groups were left out and any discrepancy from our method is noted.

10-round-group-average-atcTen shot groups with the BH data have been shown at a narrow range.  Remember that we are only looking at a difference of .11 moa from 1st to 3rd.

atc-10-shot-no-bhWithout Black Hills data again using my computer skills the values are

Ballistic Advantage .691

Criterion .607

Larue .660

The change from data containing all rounds and the data exluding the Black Hills 69 grain had no real change on the Ballistic Advantage or Larue barrels the Criterion had a shift from .5807 to .607.  This didn’t change much but is now representing a .09 moa change.

Below is each ammo broken down by barrel.  ppu-75gr-atc-barrel-data

asym-77gr-atc-barrel-data cbc-77gr-atc-barrel-data fgmm-77gr-atc-barrel-data imi-77gr-atc-barrel-data pmc-77gr-atc-barrel-dataaustralian-outback-69gr-atc-barrel-data black-hills-69gr-atc-barrel-data

It needs to be noted that the criterion 10 shot is mislabeled as a 10 shot when it is actually an 8 shot group.



SLW Barrel Shootout – Australian Outback 69gr Ammo Performance

The ninth ammo we are posting the data for is Australian Outback 69gr HPBT Sierra MatchKing. Australian Outback isn’t as well known in the United States but this ammo is sure to turn some heads at around $0.55 a round (if you can find it in stock!). I was excited to see how it performed as it is a very budget friendly round.

All Chrono data was measured by a LabRadar Doppler Chronograph and the data was pulled from the strings saved to its SD card

All target measurements were done with OnTarget Precision Calculator software.


The Australian Outback 69gr shot an average of 2529.226667 fps between the 60 shots fired. Australian Outback 69gr had an Average Velocity about exactly in the center of the pack and had an Averaged Standard Deviation over 6 series of 10 shots of 28.99 FPS which was one of the highest SD’s recorded in testing. The graph below shows the shot to shot velocity of each string and also the average of each string at the end (data point 11). Further down is the raw data that this graph was generated from.


Ballistic Advantage (Series 1) Ballistic Advantage (Series 2)
Stats – Average 2525.92 fps Stats – Average 2535.06 fps
Stats – Highest 2567.33 fps Stats – Highest 2576.53 fps
Stats – Lowest 2489.98 fps Stats – Lowest 2492.74 fps
Stats – Ext. Spread 77.35 fps Stats – Ext. Spread 83.8 fps
Stats – Std. Dev 27.02 fps Stats – Std. Dev 23.82 fps
Shot ID V0 Shot ID V0
1 2545 14:49:34 1 2530 12:39:12
2 2490 14:49:46 2 2561 12:39:46
3 2502 14:49:57 3 2535 12:40:18
4 2521 14:50:12 4 2549 12:40:35
5 2558 14:50:26 5 2493 12:40:54
6 2567 14:50:43 6 2522 12:41:23
7 2549 14:50:54 7 2513 12:41:42
8 2512 14:51:06 8 2530 12:42:03
9 2500 14:51:18 9 2577 12:42:25
10 2515 14:51:34 10 2541 12:42:51
Criterion (Series 1) Criterion (Series 2)
Stats – Average 2518.03 fps Stats – Average 2561.27 fps
Stats – Highest 2569.23 fps Stats – Highest 2594.79 fps
Stats – Lowest 2442.99 fps Stats – Lowest 2523.6 fps
Stats – Ext. Spread 126.23 fps Stats – Ext. Spread 71.19 fps
Stats – Std. Dev 36.89 fps Stats – Std. Dev 23.54 fps
Shot ID V0 Shot ID V0
1 2443 16:03:53 1 2552 15:10:52
2 2486 16:04:14 2 2542 15:11:26
3 2535 16:04:29 3 2567 15:11:43
4 2526 16:04:49 4 2524 15:12:02
5 2500 16:05:06 5 2565 15:12:21
6 2563 16:05:20 6 2590 15:13:17
7 2569 16:05:40 7 2595 15:13:38
8 2513 16:05:56 8 2560 15:14:05
9 2532 16:06:12 9 2582 15:14:22
10 2512 16:06:25 10 2536 15:14:38
LaRue (Series 1) LaRue (Series 2)
Stats – Average 2518.05 fps Stats – Average 2517.03 fps
Stats – Highest 2570.42 fps Stats – Highest 2560.76 fps
Stats – Lowest 2462.37 fps Stats – Lowest 2471.46 fps
Stats – Ext. Spread 108.05 fps Stats – Ext. Spread 89.3 fps
Stats – Std. Dev 37.69 fps Stats – Std. Dev 24.95 fps
Shot ID V0 Shot ID V0
1 2549 17:41:54 1 2561 10:05:00
2 2570 17:42:10 2 2528 10:05:29
3 2565 17:42:23 3 2520 10:05:56
4 2494 17:42:39 4 2505 10:06:22
5 2525 17:42:51 5 2533 10:06:47
6 2536 17:43:11 6 2471 10:08:08
7 2516 17:43:24 7 2500 10:08:43
8 2494 17:43:36 8 2498 10:09:16
9 2470 17:43:49 9 2516 10:09:45
10 2462 17:44:03 10 2538 10:10:08

Next are the targets, each barrel shot one 10 round and 2 5 round groups for a total of 60 rounds fired. Barrel 1 had the smallest 5 round group of all the testing with a 0.99 MOA target and a 5 shot group average of 1.3325 MOA averaged between all 6 groups.


Price vs Accuracy – Finding the best value in your ammo choices.

Now that we have established a baseline for all of the ammo tested, we can look at which ammo’s give us the best bang for the buck. While everyone would love to have a consistent sub-MOA performer (like Federal Gold Medal Match 77gr did in our testing) the $1.15-1.20 price per round scares a lot of people off, especially with some of the ammo’s we tested being available for under $.50 a round.

As we have done with all of our previous data, we wanted to present this as visually as possible, so here are graphs of each rounds averaged performance (in MOA) with all of the data (5 and 10 round groups averaged together) and seperately as both 10 and 5 round groups. The bottom of the graph features the price point of each round in US Dollars based off of actual retail price. All of the ammo’s we tested, except for ASYM 77gr, is sold by SG Ammo and I find them to be a good consistent source for quality ammunition and reasonable prices. All per round prices were based off the largest quantity available, either 200 or 1000 rounds for most.

price-to-accuracy-5-shot price-to-accuracy-10-shot price-to-accuracy-all-data

As you can see from the data, generally speaking the more expensive ammo shot better groups. However while going from a $1.15 FGMM 69gr round to the $.48 PPU 69gr round only resulted in a ‘loss’ of around .15MOA accuracy (based off 5 shot groups) which leads many to ask ‘Is that extra .15 MOA really worth twice the cost?’. The IMI and CBC 77gr appear to be the best compromise between accuracy and value, they shot some of the best groups (second and third to FGMM 77gr) but cost almost half of what the FGMM retails for.

Now that we have analyzed the data with a Group Average vs Price Per Round, I would like to introduce a new metric to help decide Accuracy vs Price. I made a table with the price per round (in US Dollars) and the averaged velocity for all of the different rounds groups sizes (in MOA). I then multiplied the price by the averaged group size to get a value. I am going to call this value the ‘Price For Performance’. The lower this value is, the better performance you are getting for the price. This PFP metric places more emphasis on the price per round (seeing as we had rounds from $.48 to $1.15 in our testing), especially when most of the ammo’s are shooting similar group sizes.

Looking at the 5 Shot data below, you can see the PPU 75gr had the largest groups by far with a 2.350333 MOA average but the lowest price at $.48 a round. This gave it a ‘Price For Performance’ value of 1.12816. Now if we look at PMC 77gr, it had a smaller group average with 1.531833 MOA but a significantly higher price of $.79 a round, giving a PFP of 1.210148, slightly higher than PPU 75gr. Now I am going to use some data from my own testing of Federal XM193 55gr FMJ (not match grade, but cheaper) it has a per round price of $.38 (on SG Ammo) and I averaged 2.68 MOA group with it. This gives the XM193 a PFP value of 1.0184, lower than either PPU 75gr or PMC 77gr but no where close to the values of our best performing ammo based on this metric (CBC and IMI 77gr, PPU and Aussie 69gr).

By this Metric the following were the ‘winners’ based off this data:

ALL DATA – PPU 69gr with a 0.847947, Australian Outback a close second

10 SHOT – PPU 75gr with a 1.07264

5 SHOT – PPU 69gr with a 0.67592, Australian Outback, IMI 77gr and CBC 77gr in hot pursuit.

The ‘worst’ performers?

Federal Gold Medal Match 69gr, with its high price and marginal increases in accuracy.

Please note, all of this data is based off low round counts, through 3 different barrels and two different shooters. Please consider this when making decisions based off of this data. I look forward to using this metric more in the future as we get more data and post it to help develop more of a ‘full picture’ of which ammo’s consistently out perform their price and which under deliver for their price.

I look forward to hearing your results and thoughts on this metric to decide which ammo will give you the best ‘bang for the buck’!

Price For Performance Data

Ammo Price Per round ALL MOA 10 SHOT 5 SHOT
IMI 77gr  $       0.70 SGAmmo 1.508444 1.055911 2.104333 1.473033 1.2105 0.84735
CBC 77gr  $       0.65 SGAmmo 1.544444 1.003889 2.176333 1.414617 1.2285 0.798525
FGMM 77gr  $       1.15 SGAmmo 1.320444 1.518511 1.987 2.28505 0.987167 1.135242
ASYM 77gr  $       0.90 ASYM 1.579889 1.4219 2.211 1.9899 1.264333 1.1379
PMC 77gr  $       0.79 SGAmmo 1.574 1.24346 1.658333 1.310083 1.531833 1.210148
PPU 75gr  $       0.48 SGAmmo 2.311778 1.109653 2.234667 1.07264 2.350333 1.12816
FGMM 69gr  $       1.15 SGAmmo 1.437111 1.652678 1.810667 2.082267 1.250333 1.437883
BH 69gr  $       1.00 SGAmmo 1.438667 1.438667 1.434 1.434 1.441 1.441
Aussie 69gr  $       0.55 SGAmmo 1.585889 0.872239 2.092667 1.150967 1.3325 0.732875
PPU 69gr  $       0.48 SGAmmo 1.766556 0.847947 2.483333 1.192 1.408167 0.67592

Barrel Overview using Extreme Spread of Targets

Extreme spread is a strange thing.  In it we compare groups with one another using the outer most shots in the group with little care about the rest of the group.  I’m sitting down with a ream of data in front of me and I think this is just the best place to kick off a big chunk of it.

We have mentioned this before and I think it is important that I reiterate it before you dive into pictures and graphs thinking either this is nonsense or this is gospel.  This is the data as we recorded it.  We didn’t know what barrel we were getting behind when things kicked off.  If we did happen to see the barrel it did not matter as we were doing our very best to provide the best data as we could.  These groups were not fired from a special locking rest and human shooters outshot the Caldwell Lead Sled every time using a bipod and squeeze bag so it was ruled out as a useful tool in this test.  It was not used for any of the groups I am sharing now.

We shared information of each of the ammo types and from that information we compiled barrel profiles.  I was asked immediately following the test which barrel was the best and I had no idea.  I still really don’t.  They all shot 5 round groups that some would brag about.  They also shot groups that many people would sweep under the group rug where fliers go to die.

All the group information below is using extreme spread.  In the near future we will present the same data by way of average to center or mean radius.  I think the two different presentations may paint different pictures but without further ado this is what we found.

Below are the group shots for each barrel.

Ballistic Advantage Hanson .223 Wylde


Criterion Hybrid



Larue Predatar


Ok pictures of groups, now which performed the best?  Well none of them were MOA all day superstars.  That said three barrels lined up and averaged about 1.5 MOA each over 600 rounds.  That is something to be said towards barrel manufacturing today as well as the availability to get ammunition for quality barrels.


The group averages were within about a tenth of an inch at 100 yards.  I am sure we can pick this apart and separate certain rounds to make that seem more shiny and chrome but that is not what we are all about.  The same could be said with removing one or two rounds of any of the ten round groups to show how much better the spread is with the elimination of a ‘flier’.  Speaking of 10 round groups.



The ten round groups averaged were larger than the 5 round groups….Shocker right.


Now bar graphs in the particular use are a bit misleading as the scale makes things look to the extremes.  The intent was simply to show which was the leader in each demonstration.  An interesting bit of data can be pulled from the last two graphs though and it uses the Bryan Litz method of determining group growth between sample sizes.  In his book ‘Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting Vol 2′ Bryan talks about samples and how they generally extend out using actual shooters to test.


I think this is a very useful little tool for an approximation of actual group data for the times you have a limited supply of an ammunition type and want to stretch it out.  You can shoot a three shot group and expand it out to the 30 shot  group scale taking it by a factor of 2 and then set up the appropriate size steel at long range and make hits.

Using that line of thought our Criterion Hybrid shot a 5 round group average at 1.39525 if we take that times the constant of 1.24 it comes to 1.73.  The actual 10 shot group average was 1.884 although these groups were fired by two different shooters.  Again we can and likely will dissect each of the ammo types down the road but what you are seeing now are generalities of groups fired at the beginning of each barrels life span.

Below are each ammunition type broken down by barrel and string.
asym-77gr-barrel-target-data aussie-69gr-barrel-target-data bh-69gr-barrel-target-data cbc-77gr-barrel-target-data fgmm-69gr-barrel-target-data fgmm-77gr-barrel-target-data imi-77gr-barrel-target-data pmc-77gr-barrel-target-data ppu-69gr-barrel-target-data ppu-75gr-barrel-target-data

SLW Barrel Shootout – Ammo Data Summary

Yesterday we posted the final set of Chrono and Target data for PPU 69gr HPBT. Now we get on to the interesting side… interpreting that data and processing what it MEANS.

Through the posts about the ammo we compared two major components of the chrono data, the average velocity and the standard deviation. Here is how all of that compares in two, simple to read graphs:



The IMI 77gr and Magtech/CBC both topped the field with an impressive 2639 fps (IMI) and 2637 fps (CBC) average over 60 rounds. IMI also took home the honors with the lowest standard deviation with a low 17.17 fps Standard Deviation with the two Federal Gold Medal Match offerings a close second (17.88 fps for 77gr and 17.94 fps for 69gr respectively)

Also during the ammunition posts we showed group sizes and averages for each individual ammo. We broke those average group sizes into two graphs, one for 5 shot and another for 10 shot groups so that you can easily compare all of the ammo’s to each other. The final graph is all of the groups for each ammo averaged together (5 and 10 shot groups both) and gives a good picture for the ‘total’ accuracy of each round.




Federal Gold Medal Match 77gr had the best 5 shot group average by a large margin, over .2 MOA smaller than the next closest Ammo. When it came to 10 round groups, Black Hills 69gr had the smallest group average by a large margin as well. It was interesting to see that the winners of the opposite category were rather average in the opposite category (FGMM 77gr had the 4th smallest 10 round group average and BH 69gr had the 7th smallest 5 round group average).

The best group of all of the testing was a .701 MOA group fired with Federal Gold Medal Match 77gr. It should be noted that there was only one 5 shot group over 1 MOA fired with FGMM 77gr. The only other ammo’s to fire multiple Sub-MOA groups were CBC 77gr (3) and PPU 69gr (2). The only ammo that did NOT fire a sub MOA group was PPU 75gr. The only Sub-MOA 10 shot group was fired with Black Hills 69gr ammo